Bettina Arndt joins Janice Fiamengo, Don Lofendale and Tom Golden to discuss the zany feminist idea that men should be able to cease sexual activity on command. Yes, consensual sex that she decides needs to stop, better stop when she decides. He is expected to put on the brakes immediately as she demands. If it is not immediate they claim it is rape. Bettina wrote a powerful article on this topic and referred to another article about the science behind this idea. Needless to say the science and the feminists are in different worlds. The group discusses this idea in a lively discussion.
We all know many women have rape fantasies. I wonder if this is sometimes just an extension of that. If the idea of rape is so stimulating to these women, might they not succumb to the urge to cross the line between fantasy and reality by actually BELIEVING they're being raped? Wouldn't this be even more likely to occur in an environment in which such flights of fancy are encouraged, validated, and rewarded?
And what better context in which to indulge this fantasy than with a safe, caring man who would never actually hurt you?
Great debate on a delicate subject , frank and uninhibited discussion is needed. Bettina at about 34.00 makes the point that in these cases consent has always been given initially and the sex commenced and continued for long enough that it is obvious that the woman was a willing participant . For that reason these cases should be treated differently from the usual meaning of rape.
I would go further and say that in these cases consent could not be “revoked” the meaning of the word is to “take back” but how can you take back something which has already gone? it is too late if the sex has occurred already.
As Bettina said these cases need to be treated differently and a way out would be to treat them as CIVIL matters, then the woman would have to pay her own way , instead of burdening police and the taxpayers.
Sex after all occurs in what could be called “sessions” with a clear start and finish , to say that consent ,once given, can not be revoked for a particular sex session would not mean that consent was also assumed for any future sex ,obviously.
As bad as the law is, what on earth is wrong with the men on these juries? They let a man be railroaded into jail because they don't want to be harangued by some feminist nut job on the jury? No wonder women are taking advantage of the men down there.
Good to hear an extended, frank discussion of this matter. I am reminded of Janice's discussion of the violence and anger of early feminism, deftly buried now under the mantra of victimization and exploitation. The calculated ways of trapping and defaming and criminalizing men and male sex behavior (discussed in this video) seem to pair well with governmental attempts to manage private lives. These feminists express hostility and revenge in more intimate ways. No wonder men are withdrawing in more general ways!
LOL A bunch of fucking geezers with literally no understanding of what young people are going through talking about something they couldn’t understand if their lives depended on it.
These people should be talking about their pension plans, not anything related to sex. These males haven’t been able to get it up for decades. Go reminisce about the good ol’ days of chivalry when men could beat their wives legally.
Will these old AnTiFeMiNiSmS just put it to rest? You people lost. Your time passed. You guys are irrelevant. Shut up.
Btw, as suspected, the majority leaving comments here are porn-addicted old men who couldn’t get a woman to fuck them voluntarily in a million years. None of you are relevant. Go use 30 year old pics on Tinder as you swipe because nobody cares.
Bettina: you have to seek consent every inch of the way (hem hem. pun ).
The blind man case is a shocker. Bettina says about him freezing and then something like: even if he withdraws there can be damage...
This is case is insane... so if they didn't get him on rape, they could have gotten him ?? on 'he pushed me off him and I fell and bruised my shoulder and therefore it is assault..'
Did she ask him for consent?
Then Don Lofendale compares the: the man is being assaulted by a group of girls with fellatio, he feels it is a little mouth but takes some time to figure out what's going on and react ... but... it can take a grown woman twenty years to figure out she has been sexually assaulted or raped!! - this is fantastic to hear and to actually 'cognitively' put it together time wise and wonder what 'she' did with this rape information in between!!
I say this because I think it could take a long time to figure out.. personal experience of being molested as a boy - BUT, I discussed this in therapy many years later.. I say this only because therapy can ben evidence !!! surely ???
So my question is : in such cases, in a court, does anyone actually ask the Complainant if they were in therapy or discussed it with a professional person... or is it 100% that 'believe all women' on the communicated words of the so called assault / rape - only ?
Don't get me wrong. I think all this consent business and false charges are a horror and anyone that is found lying/making false statements should be in jail...
I'm glad that Bettina bought up her idea of doing something different - near the end... that such cases should be treated differently... I'm sorry I couldn't find it quickly but wanted to mention it... for me it is about.. sex being a private situation and if someone changes their mind, then should the 'man' be treated like a criminal - refer to my last words below...
For me.. I've always thought that 'rape' was - to simply put - a man physically forces a woman to be penetrated and there is physical violence/mental violence that is quite evident... bruises, broken bones ??? hospital visits. You know what I mean.. not this 'I've changed my mind shit and my feeling are hurt because you didn't respond quick enough'... (do the judges ever ask the female - what is your idea of 'quick enough'?)
very, very good chat and so much to digest actually... in many ways.. sex, psychological, societies ideas, politics, law and interpretation problems...
We all know many women have rape fantasies. I wonder if this is sometimes just an extension of that. If the idea of rape is so stimulating to these women, might they not succumb to the urge to cross the line between fantasy and reality by actually BELIEVING they're being raped? Wouldn't this be even more likely to occur in an environment in which such flights of fancy are encouraged, validated, and rewarded?
And what better context in which to indulge this fantasy than with a safe, caring man who would never actually hurt you?
Great debate on a delicate subject , frank and uninhibited discussion is needed. Bettina at about 34.00 makes the point that in these cases consent has always been given initially and the sex commenced and continued for long enough that it is obvious that the woman was a willing participant . For that reason these cases should be treated differently from the usual meaning of rape.
I would go further and say that in these cases consent could not be “revoked” the meaning of the word is to “take back” but how can you take back something which has already gone? it is too late if the sex has occurred already.
As Bettina said these cases need to be treated differently and a way out would be to treat them as CIVIL matters, then the woman would have to pay her own way , instead of burdening police and the taxpayers.
Sex after all occurs in what could be called “sessions” with a clear start and finish , to say that consent ,once given, can not be revoked for a particular sex session would not mean that consent was also assumed for any future sex ,obviously.
As bad as the law is, what on earth is wrong with the men on these juries? They let a man be railroaded into jail because they don't want to be harangued by some feminist nut job on the jury? No wonder women are taking advantage of the men down there.
Good to hear an extended, frank discussion of this matter. I am reminded of Janice's discussion of the violence and anger of early feminism, deftly buried now under the mantra of victimization and exploitation. The calculated ways of trapping and defaming and criminalizing men and male sex behavior (discussed in this video) seem to pair well with governmental attempts to manage private lives. These feminists express hostility and revenge in more intimate ways. No wonder men are withdrawing in more general ways!
Didn't Gore Vidal call this "the tyranny of the orgasm"?
LOL A bunch of fucking geezers with literally no understanding of what young people are going through talking about something they couldn’t understand if their lives depended on it.
These people should be talking about their pension plans, not anything related to sex. These males haven’t been able to get it up for decades. Go reminisce about the good ol’ days of chivalry when men could beat their wives legally.
Will these old AnTiFeMiNiSmS just put it to rest? You people lost. Your time passed. You guys are irrelevant. Shut up.
Btw, as suspected, the majority leaving comments here are porn-addicted old men who couldn’t get a woman to fuck them voluntarily in a million years. None of you are relevant. Go use 30 year old pics on Tinder as you swipe because nobody cares.
I enjoyed the honesty of this get together...
Bettina: you have to seek consent every inch of the way (hem hem. pun ).
The blind man case is a shocker. Bettina says about him freezing and then something like: even if he withdraws there can be damage...
This is case is insane... so if they didn't get him on rape, they could have gotten him ?? on 'he pushed me off him and I fell and bruised my shoulder and therefore it is assault..'
Did she ask him for consent?
Then Don Lofendale compares the: the man is being assaulted by a group of girls with fellatio, he feels it is a little mouth but takes some time to figure out what's going on and react ... but... it can take a grown woman twenty years to figure out she has been sexually assaulted or raped!! - this is fantastic to hear and to actually 'cognitively' put it together time wise and wonder what 'she' did with this rape information in between!!
I say this because I think it could take a long time to figure out.. personal experience of being molested as a boy - BUT, I discussed this in therapy many years later.. I say this only because therapy can ben evidence !!! surely ???
So my question is : in such cases, in a court, does anyone actually ask the Complainant if they were in therapy or discussed it with a professional person... or is it 100% that 'believe all women' on the communicated words of the so called assault / rape - only ?
Don't get me wrong. I think all this consent business and false charges are a horror and anyone that is found lying/making false statements should be in jail...
I'm glad that Bettina bought up her idea of doing something different - near the end... that such cases should be treated differently... I'm sorry I couldn't find it quickly but wanted to mention it... for me it is about.. sex being a private situation and if someone changes their mind, then should the 'man' be treated like a criminal - refer to my last words below...
For me.. I've always thought that 'rape' was - to simply put - a man physically forces a woman to be penetrated and there is physical violence/mental violence that is quite evident... bruises, broken bones ??? hospital visits. You know what I mean.. not this 'I've changed my mind shit and my feeling are hurt because you didn't respond quick enough'... (do the judges ever ask the female - what is your idea of 'quick enough'?)
very, very good chat and so much to digest actually... in many ways.. sex, psychological, societies ideas, politics, law and interpretation problems...