I am Mark. I began the mensshed movement in the US. mark@usmenssheds.org. To a degree you are missing several important points Tom. Reach out to me and I will fill you in thus you will have a better understanding of the movement which is in 14 countries now.
Women are very important to the movement worldwide. They have started 4 sheds in the states and 15 to 20 percent of sheds internationally. Australia for instance has 1180 sheds and 100 she sheds. David Helmers who began the movement in Australia and worldwide sits on our board. David and I have worked together since 2017. Jeffrey did a great job. Barry Golding who has written two books on sheds actually was the first one who coined the phrase " men don't talk face to face they talk shoulder to shoulder" he and I work together from time to time. If you really want to dig down deeper, email or call me.
It is obvious to me that it is men who are in need at this point. Men need their own space. That is what I am working towards since it is clear that women have a multitude of places to gather as women but men's spaces have been systematically dismantled. Good luck in helping women. That is not my specific interest at this point.
Mar 22, 2023·edited Mar 22, 2023Liked by Tom Golden
One of the many things implied in what Jeff said was that women are completely lacking in empathy; that is what their inability to understand what men need and the way we interact, think, talk to each other and heal implies.
There is absolutely no place for women in men's sheds.
Now that the feminists have spent decades destroying the infrastructure of male companionship, it looks like we are forced rebuild underground and call them sheds.
I strongly support the idea of men's spaces, such as the Men's Sheds, but the blaming of feminists and this backward-looking nostalgia is anachronistic and unhelpful. The men's spaces of today are, and should be, different than the ones of the past. In the past, many, if not most men's spaces were designed to preserve male power and privilege. Union halls, Rotary Clubs, Chambers of Commerce, were all places where men not only met to socialize but to do business, advance economically, and coordinate politically. Of course women wanted in to those spaces! And it is why a few women are suspicious of these men's only spaces today. But the spaces today should not be for advancing male power, but for shoring up men's social connections, friendships, healing, and support. So long as the new movement concentrates on those, everyone will come to see how beneficial these men's spaces are. But we don't need the feminist bashing and romantic nostalgia to advocate for these new men's spaces today.
Did you ever go to a men's service group meeting like the Lions Club or Rotary in the 1950's or 1960's? Just wondering if your viewpoint is based on first hand experience or what you have heard from others.
My dad and grandfather were members of Lions and Rotary (Dad) and Kiwanis (Grandfather.) I saw both groups first hand and have vivid memories, most of them very pleasant. I'm not saying these were evil places doing evil things. Both my father and grandfather benefited enormously from being parts of these groups. And I would argue that Lions and Kiwanis were less about consolidating male power than Rotary, which very much billed itself as a "businessman's organization" in those years. But even Lions and Kiwanis were places where men had job connections and economic and political networking that were advantageous. Advantages that were closed to women.
I went to a number of my father's Lions Club meetings and saw first hand that these were service oriented groups. I remember on most holidays they were out in the community helping those who had less than they. Did they do business together? Sure, as entrepreneurs we tend to do business with those we know. BFD.
You said: "many, if not most, men's spaces were designed to preserve male power and privilege."
Seems like you are re-assessing that now. I hope you are. These spaces were to be helpful to the community. To characterize them as bastions of power is a gross over-simplification that reeks of feminist bias.
So the world of today is totally filled with female only spaces. Are you claiming those are fair to men to be excluded? Is there not plenty of business going on? Yup. Double standard much?
The idea that women's only spaces are concentrations of business power isn't credible. What space would you even mean?
"Sure, as entrepreneurs we tend to do business with those we know. BFD."
Yup, that's a BFD. When women or non-white men or low-income or anyone is excluded from spaces where people do business it's a BFD.
I'm not against men's spaces. But let's be honest about how, IN THE PAST, these spaces served a role that was discriminatory (in addition to their very good social functions.) Let's build spaces today that are not discriminatory or serve to consolidate advantage for one group over another. That shouldn't be a controversial idea.
To support what? I'm asking you: What women's only spaces do YOU think are concentrations of business power that are in any way comparable to the men's only spaces of old? You're making the claim that women's only spaces are somehow just like the Rotary Clubs of the 1960s. I'm saying you need to cite your sources.
Tom I am not advocating helping women. The women who are involved in the shed movement actually help men. You missed my point. This is where a phone conversation would clear things up. Have a good day!
I find it satisfyingly ironic that women are having to deal with Trans men invading their spaces in society. Welcome to our world ladies.
Amen.
I am Mark. I began the mensshed movement in the US. mark@usmenssheds.org. To a degree you are missing several important points Tom. Reach out to me and I will fill you in thus you will have a better understanding of the movement which is in 14 countries now.
Thanks for the comment Mark. If you have some additional info about sheds please do leave it here in the comments. That way everyone will benefit.
Tom, there is so much to say. Why dont you and I have a phone call next week...what do you say?
So give it a start and tell us what the video was missing!
Women are very important to the movement worldwide. They have started 4 sheds in the states and 15 to 20 percent of sheds internationally. Australia for instance has 1180 sheds and 100 she sheds. David Helmers who began the movement in Australia and worldwide sits on our board. David and I have worked together since 2017. Jeffrey did a great job. Barry Golding who has written two books on sheds actually was the first one who coined the phrase " men don't talk face to face they talk shoulder to shoulder" he and I work together from time to time. If you really want to dig down deeper, email or call me.
It is obvious to me that it is men who are in need at this point. Men need their own space. That is what I am working towards since it is clear that women have a multitude of places to gather as women but men's spaces have been systematically dismantled. Good luck in helping women. That is not my specific interest at this point.
One of the many things implied in what Jeff said was that women are completely lacking in empathy; that is what their inability to understand what men need and the way we interact, think, talk to each other and heal implies.
There is absolutely no place for women in men's sheds.
Agree totally that men's sheds are for MEN!
Love it Tom! Thanks for having me.
Hi Jeff! Thanks for doing this. Excellent message and you did a good job getting it across. Well done.
Now that the feminists have spent decades destroying the infrastructure of male companionship, it looks like we are forced rebuild underground and call them sheds.
Sadly this is true. And they are even trying to sabotage that.
I should bring "cred" for something you refuse to support with evidence? LMAO
Buh bye
I strongly support the idea of men's spaces, such as the Men's Sheds, but the blaming of feminists and this backward-looking nostalgia is anachronistic and unhelpful. The men's spaces of today are, and should be, different than the ones of the past. In the past, many, if not most men's spaces were designed to preserve male power and privilege. Union halls, Rotary Clubs, Chambers of Commerce, were all places where men not only met to socialize but to do business, advance economically, and coordinate politically. Of course women wanted in to those spaces! And it is why a few women are suspicious of these men's only spaces today. But the spaces today should not be for advancing male power, but for shoring up men's social connections, friendships, healing, and support. So long as the new movement concentrates on those, everyone will come to see how beneficial these men's spaces are. But we don't need the feminist bashing and romantic nostalgia to advocate for these new men's spaces today.
Did you ever go to a men's service group meeting like the Lions Club or Rotary in the 1950's or 1960's? Just wondering if your viewpoint is based on first hand experience or what you have heard from others.
My dad and grandfather were members of Lions and Rotary (Dad) and Kiwanis (Grandfather.) I saw both groups first hand and have vivid memories, most of them very pleasant. I'm not saying these were evil places doing evil things. Both my father and grandfather benefited enormously from being parts of these groups. And I would argue that Lions and Kiwanis were less about consolidating male power than Rotary, which very much billed itself as a "businessman's organization" in those years. But even Lions and Kiwanis were places where men had job connections and economic and political networking that were advantageous. Advantages that were closed to women.
I went to a number of my father's Lions Club meetings and saw first hand that these were service oriented groups. I remember on most holidays they were out in the community helping those who had less than they. Did they do business together? Sure, as entrepreneurs we tend to do business with those we know. BFD.
You said: "many, if not most, men's spaces were designed to preserve male power and privilege."
Seems like you are re-assessing that now. I hope you are. These spaces were to be helpful to the community. To characterize them as bastions of power is a gross over-simplification that reeks of feminist bias.
So the world of today is totally filled with female only spaces. Are you claiming those are fair to men to be excluded? Is there not plenty of business going on? Yup. Double standard much?
The idea that women's only spaces are concentrations of business power isn't credible. What space would you even mean?
"Sure, as entrepreneurs we tend to do business with those we know. BFD."
Yup, that's a BFD. When women or non-white men or low-income or anyone is excluded from spaces where people do business it's a BFD.
I'm not against men's spaces. But let's be honest about how, IN THE PAST, these spaces served a role that was discriminatory (in addition to their very good social functions.) Let's build spaces today that are not discriminatory or serve to consolidate advantage for one group over another. That shouldn't be a controversial idea.
"The idea that women's only spaces are concentrations of business power isn't credible. What space would you even mean?"
What evidence do you have to support that?
To support what? I'm asking you: What women's only spaces do YOU think are concentrations of business power that are in any way comparable to the men's only spaces of old? You're making the claim that women's only spaces are somehow just like the Rotary Clubs of the 1960s. I'm saying you need to cite your sources.
Tom I am not advocating helping women. The women who are involved in the shed movement actually help men. You missed my point. This is where a phone conversation would clear things up. Have a good day!