259 Comments
User's avatar
Notes from the Under Dog L.'s avatar

I'd like more from Nuzzo, but indeed, women's hyperbole has driven men away.

Drucker also writes: "I’m 54. I’ve been dating since the mid-80s, been married, been a mother, gotten divorced, had many relationships long and short. I remember when part of heterosexual male culture involved showing up with a woman to signal something — status, success, desirability. Women were once signifiers of value, even to other men. It wasn’t always healthy, but it meant that men had to show up and put in some effort."

What this means is that there's fallout in her past, and she's onto the next guy. Who wants to be next in a litany of men? Inherent in getting together with her, is getting dumped. Of course the assertion is that men have discarded women for centuries, but in my observations, that didn't necessarily end their loyalty to providing for families, whereas in the wild west of female-dominated society, an affair is a ticket to divorce. She just keeps cycling through them, on an endless search for "the one."

Expand full comment
J D Doe's avatar

Women changed and drove men away. All are materialistic hores and only care about me, me, me. Will take half your shit in court which they absolutely do not deserve. Fuck you bitches.

Expand full comment
Zone of Sulphur's avatar

The "take half your shit in court" is a key factor in driving men away from commitment. One of my children (a criminal defence attorney, supposedly knowledgable in law) had a policy of ending every live-in relationship with a woman (there were many) in the 11th month because, in the jurisdiction where he lived, cohabitation even without benefit of clergy entitled the female partner to claim half the male's assets. He finally settled down with a doctor who had tons of assets while he remained a relative pauper, even at a lawyer's salary. All relationships between men and women are transactional. Get that straight, then enjoy a happy life.

Expand full comment
David Smith's avatar

Hypergamy is what all females do and a species have progressively gotten smarter stronger tougher and more resilient. Men need to be taught standards for themselves too . Is she worth breeding with and carrying your offspring? This is fundamental. Men need to stop objectified sex and look for the viable option long term … or not ….which seems to be the way nowadays because it has become more complex than just building your dream life which may actually not be your dream at all but Walt Disney and Co. I advocate buying a motorcycle and a bedroll and hit the road while you’re young . Figure your self out first and unlearn all that deep programming from the State .

Expand full comment
Jane Bond's avatar

Did your son disclose his “policy” to these myriad women so each could make an informed decision about her own living situation? Or did he get whatever he wanted from them for 11.5 months and then tell them that it wasn’t working out?

It appears your son is manipulative and calculating but you aren’t bothered by it.

If my son ever behaved this way, I would tell him it was disgraceful and that he was the problem, not the women or the law.

Expand full comment
Zone of Sulphur's avatar

To address downstream comments, in Canada 12 months of cohabitation is enshrined in law as equal to legal marriage with all the same rights attributed even to non-contributing partners. To be fair, the sword of justice theoretically cuts both ways although rarely in favour of the male gold digger.

Expand full comment
Jane Bond's avatar

Why would a person cohabitate with/marry a person they felt contributed nothing?

Expand full comment
Former Dem's avatar

This thread is hilarious. The male loneliness "epidemic" is sure a mystery. When did Substack get overrun with butthurt Boomer baby men? They usually stick with X.

Expand full comment
Esther's avatar

Stay at home mothers although contributing plenty to building a home, it is not considered contribution nowadays, especially in a legal sense.

What do you think? A woman who cooks cleans and is raising the children is considered contributing or not?

Expand full comment
Jane Bond's avatar

I know it is a contribution

Expand full comment
Jane Bond's avatar

It sounds like the goal is to drive men toward commitment by discouraging cohabitation and encouraging marriage/family formation.

Expand full comment
Frank's avatar

That is the stated goal of many conservatives, like Senator Hawley. He tells men to "man up" and form families. When I wrote him to let him know that men were shunning marriage due to fears about divorce court, he didn't reply.

Expand full comment
Jane Bond's avatar

Like all Christian Nationalists, Senator Hawley would like heterosexual marriage to be required and divorce to be illegal. If people keep electing them, they are going to get their wish.

Expand full comment
rc4797's avatar

What bullshit. This is just men wanting to control the purse strings during - and after - a marriage.

Expand full comment
Conrad Riker's avatar

Palimony for women to be maintained by ex-boyfriends.

We might as well just formally issue them badges, whips, and guns as common law marriage plantation overseers.

Logically a women will just plough through fields of wild oats gaining a substantial pension through the process of 12-months here, 12-months there.

Expand full comment
Jane Bond's avatar

Materialistic “whores.”

Expand full comment
Former Dem's avatar

Oh no, a self proclaimed bigot and racist also thinks all women are "hores." We can't help what you're mom was. After all, she raised you.

Expand full comment
Notorious P.A.T.'s avatar

For more from Mr. Nuzzo, you could follow him on Twitter and bookmark his Substack:

https://jameslnuzzo.substack.com/

Expand full comment
Yvonne Elizabeth  Aston's avatar

Oh dear me Underdog, how absolutely frightful. I had father, brothers, cousins, childhood and college friends who were male. They were all good guys, practically minded and very helpful.

I joined the equal pay for women league but when the dialogue changed to men being the sources of everything that was awful and burning one’s underwear I unjoined.

Mutuality, love, appreciation, respect for one another and the recognition that men and women need each other and should be joined in alliance in order to achieve a happy existence is obvious. Just stop misandry and misogyny. Neither attitude is happiness and life promoting.

Expand full comment
Conrad Riker's avatar

Apparently the pay gap is mostly explained by men working longer hours, and choosing dirtier, more dangerous jobs.

Probably so they can attract a mate, or take care of one while she raises young.

But they won't explain the pay gap.

Nor will they explain men pay 80% of taxes per the IRS, and women spend 80% of the consumer spending... So who's really privileged there.

It's animus possessed feminism, projecting anger and resentment into men at large.

Our ancestors knew that women were like this and needed checks and balances on their demands and accusations.

Expand full comment
Tom Golden's avatar

The pay gap assertion is correct. The tax and spending numbers are probably not far off. That kind of data is hard to find but I am betting it is well over 50% for both and possibly as high as you estminate.

Expand full comment
MoT's avatar

Don't bother trying to "explain" anything to these harpies. Even here they're busy bitching and moaning. They're gonna die alone surrounded by their cats.

Expand full comment
Tom Golden's avatar

This is an important observation. Note that the feminists are not here to discuss or share ideas, they are here to complain and blame. Oh well. Good for people to see this. This was the standard default as short as 10 years ago. You would have 20 Kats and only one voice opposing the misandry. That is now dying and folks like Kat are becoming extinct. This is a good thing. We need dialogue.

Expand full comment
Yvonne Elizabeth  Aston's avatar

Cats are lovely, dogs are useful and adorable and people can be so unbelievably amazing. Men are often marvellous, women too are frequently wonderful. I like cats and dogs and horses and cattle and sheep and pigs and innumerable species of wildlife. They are not all the same animal but they are all deserving of care and respect and love. Come on people, get your acts together and stop this childish bickering and name calling, Dominance is not love, controlling behaviour is not care, as a Christian I try to follow the mantra “ Love one another”. Perhaps you misogynists and misandrists could just stop competing with each other as to whom can be the most dismissive and insulting.

Expand full comment
Former Dem's avatar

Promise?

Expand full comment
Midwest Transplant's avatar

Where did you get that statistic from? When I google it, it appears to come from a 1979 paper.

Expand full comment
Tom Golden's avatar

Yes, that data is tough to find. New Zealand did a study some time ago that comes up with pretty startling numbers that go along with what Conrad has said. But the US numbers are not so available. I wish they were. If anyone knows how to find it please do let us know.

Expand full comment
Former Dem's avatar

Misogyny. Remember, men had no problem denying women bank accounts or ability to own property in the “good old days” either. Leaving them no way to escape the rampant abuse many of them suffered. And I don't believe that the wage gap is due to the “dangerous” jobs or working longer hours either. They decided which jobs pay less based on the sex of who typically performed them. Why do teachers and nurses make so little? Those are dangerous and thankless jobs. Or why do hotel maids doing backbreaking work all day make less than sanitation workers who don't even have to get out of their trucks nowadays? He sounds like a throwback to me.

Expand full comment
Tom Golden's avatar

You might want to read Warren Farrell's book Why Men Earn More. He lays out the numbers and the reasons for them. https://amzn.to/30MUlq0

Expand full comment
Frank's avatar

Nurses make six figures. An eighteen your old man in a warehouse might make $15 an hour if he is lucky.

Expand full comment
Frank's avatar
20hEdited

"Former" Dem (more like current Dem: When "men" like you get prostate cancer, they learn that their feminist pals in Congress made sure that three times more taxpayer funds are spent on breast cancer than prostate cancer.

Expand full comment
Former Dem's avatar

Sounds like men need to advocate for themselves more like women did for breast cancer. "Women fight for their own self interests instead of men's" isn't quite the flex you seem to think it's is.

Expand full comment
Frank's avatar

Men DO advocate for themselves, but nobody listens. The one success men have made is through MGTOW, where men have walked away from the women that don’t give a shit about men. And now the women are complaining about that.

Maybe you will hook up with a woman that doesn’t give a shit about men, and you will end up broke, homeless, and suicidal.

Expand full comment
Dave's avatar

>Men are invincible oppressors who, with a snap of their fingers, decided women make less globally.

>Uhhhh can't get prostate cancer advocacy obviously it's because women are united invincible self-interest lobbyists haha

-_-

Expand full comment
Greg Allan's avatar

"And I don't believe that the wage gap is due to the “dangerous” jobs or working longer hours either."

Some folk believe in Santa Clause and the Easter Bunny too.

In Australia the headline "gender wage gap" is about 17%. Meanwhile the difference in average hourly rates of pay is 1.2%.

Expand full comment
Notorious P.A.T.'s avatar

"Being a garbage collector is so easy!" No, actually, it is not. It is one of the top-five most dangerous jobs in America, for one thing:

https://www.bls.gov/charts/census-of-fatal-occupational-injuries/civilian-occupations-with-high-fatal-work-injury-rates.htm

And when could women not own property?

Expand full comment
Kat Highsmith's avatar

You should tell the Taliban about your amazing ideas. They’re really building an amazing society where 9 yr old girls are being married off and children are starving to death with their rational protector-provider males in charge.

Males need checks and balances because they’re crazy. Maybe if you work really hard, we’ll finally have a male president, who knows.

Nobody cares you can’t get laid. That’s your fault.

Expand full comment
Zone of Sulphur's avatar

Unsurprising, typically dishonest comment. You are conflating radical Islamists frozen in the seventh century with Western white males in the twenty-first.

Expand full comment
Tom Golden's avatar

Well said Zone. It's a relationally aggressive tactic called "shifting the ground." Ring one in the circus isn't going well? No problem, just oint to Ring two! lol

Expand full comment
Kat Highsmith's avatar

If something is innate in males, it is ubiquitous. If males are a certain way, they shouldn’t have to be told not to marry 9 yr olds, and Western white males were doing this in the US in the 20th century before the mean feminists passed laws to stop it.

Look it up. Male behavior is contingent upon what they can get away with.

Expand full comment
Conrad Riker's avatar

Projection

Expand full comment
Kat Highsmith's avatar

Don't speak on things you don't understand.

Find me a country in the world where women fight tooth and nail to implement laws so it's legal for adult women to marry and legally rape 9 year old boys, all while claiming to be rational protector-providers of course.

Males do not have the ability to engage in self-awareness.

Go play video games and be quiet.

https://www.grandforksherald.com/news/the-vault/minnesota-women-demanded-change-when-9-year-old-girl-got-married-in-1937

Expand full comment
Scipio's avatar

You're not the sharpest tool in the shed, are you, Kath.

Expand full comment
Tom Golden's avatar

She does expose the relationally aggressive techniques so often used by women, especially immature women. For that I am grateful. It is important for people to see.

Expand full comment
Kat Highsmith's avatar

Yeah, I'm just noticing the universality of male stupidity and violence in relation to women.

You're really smart though.

Expand full comment
Kat Highsmith's avatar

And why do you think Western white males can't get away with in the 21st century what they used to, sweaty?

Which social movement made it their specific goal to make sure men couldn't do exactly what the Taliban is doing right now?

Men literally have no self-awareness.

https://www.grandforksherald.com/news/the-vault/minnesota-women-demanded-change-when-9-year-old-girl-got-married-in-1937

Expand full comment
Daniele Vilone's avatar

Your level of hatred (and stupidity, of course) is comical. No, it wasn't feminism, but all the fights mostly men fought (paying a btter ticket in blood) to improve the society emerged from Industrial Revolution. But if there is something I learnt about western women, is your total lack of gratitude. Good to know.

Expand full comment
Former Dem's avatar

They're never going to pick you sweaty.

Expand full comment
Former Dem's avatar

Sane difference.

Expand full comment
Scipio's avatar

What a stupid comment.

It astonishes me how women like you believe you're entitled to make claims about men, based on your supposed deep, secret insights into masculinity.

However if a man was ever to claim the same things about women, you would be among the first to castigate him and shut him down as "(insert misandrist buzzword here)".

The double standard is obvious.

As is your profound ignorance: the truth is that you don't have the faintest clue about masculinity, or what men are like.

Reality? You're not even a feminist. You're just a sad, bigoted misandrist, who hates men.

Try to be better.

Expand full comment
Ray Arkonin's avatar

Your remark is another example of the mental myopia that some people suffer from. Societies affected by feminism will obviously die out. And on Earth there will remain "amazing societies where 9 yr old girls are being married off". Modern feminized Western society in the future human civilization will be remembered only as "not to do". This scenario can be avoided only if Western society can come up with something with feminism and, most importantly, implement it.

Expand full comment
Kat Highsmith's avatar

Yes, that’s why everyone flocks from Finland to Afghanistan, which is soaring economically and socially.

Idiot.

Expand full comment
Ray Arkonin's avatar

Oh, are you referring to migrants from Afghanistan or Syria to Europe? Not all of them are fleeing to Europe. Mostly young men of military age are arriving in Europe, and they are not at all eager to become Europeans. Frankly speaking, they despise the feminized culture of Europe. They bring their families, their customs, their way of life. And, paradoxically, they do not respect women at all, and these men are becoming more and more numerous. And these absolutely patriarchal men are the most protected part of "European" society. I have already said that societies infected with feminism will die out.

Expand full comment
Conrad Riker's avatar

Feminism as an ideology has a measurable effect on fertility.

The UK is running at a growth rate of minus 25% per generation due to its 60% girls Universities and 12 months of maternity leave and women net negative lifetime tax payers with unlimited socialized healthcare.

Afgan mothers produce 4.5 children!

I do think it's partly cultural.

Expand full comment
Kat Highsmith's avatar

Look at this idiot.

IF THEIR ANTI FEMINIST CULTURES ARE SO GREAT, WHY ARE THEY LEAVING THEM???

Immigration is going to be reversed, and then they can go die as they destroy their third world shitholes, run by the very same idiots you're defending here.

Societies infected by stupid men destroy themselves. There's a reason nobody leaves Iceland to fight to get into Afghanistan, dummy.

Men literally live in a dream world.

Expand full comment
Former Dem's avatar

Well if Ray Arkonin says so....

Expand full comment
Former Dem's avatar

Are you suggesting they respect women in their homeland? Do you have an actual brick for a head? 😂😂

Expand full comment
Esther's avatar

"Western society can come up with something with feminism and, most importantly, implement it."

What do you mean? Come up with what?

I'm not making fun of. I am genuinely curious what do you mean.

Expand full comment
Former Dem's avatar

He's masturbating to the thought of being able to marry a nine year old.

Expand full comment
Ray Arkonin's avatar

I think that it is impossible to put the genie back in the bottle. Therefore, we must deal with what is.

A rollback to the norms of a patriarchal society is impossible, since feminism affects the very foundation of society - the family.

I really hope that the infection has not gone so far that recovery becomes impossible. I also hope that the current crisis is just a crisis, not agony, and therefore a solution can be found. But feminism is not going anywhere.

What exactly needs to be done? I do not know. Personally, I believe that feminism is a deadly disease for any society and society must be treated for feminism, perhaps even with radical methods, therapy will not help here. But maybe another, more elegant solution to this crisis will be found (I still hope that this is not agony).

Expand full comment
Conrad Riker's avatar

I don't think there's a cure for feminism.

Or the woke mind virus.

We'll have to wait for the patients to die off naturally.

They'll be replaced by those with resistance.

In 1945, in liberated Germany, they had to ban the Nazis from public office. There was no way to save them from the ideological possession. Lost souls.

Expand full comment
Esther's avatar

"A rollback to the norms of a patriarchal society is impossible"

I personally don't think that would be a good idea.

It is my impression, that at least on this thread, a lot of people think, that every single woman is rapid man hater.

It's simply not true.

There was a need for feminism, when women didn't have rights or weren't allowed to own properties, but those times are gone now.

Most women a perfectly happy to just be.

We don't all 'fight the patriarchal society'.

Feminist are very loud, and drown out those of us, who think they took it too far.

It is the same with woke.

Not everyone agrees, that people can choose their gender or their kid's gender. But the woke proponents are very loud. Louder than the average people.

I don't know how to fix the situation now, other than protect our children from extremist point of views, so the next generation hopefully won't be as deranged as us, but they will have some even newer meshugas, and we will be the ones who would shake our heads and say 'in may days that would have never happened!' :)

Expand full comment
Kat Highsmith's avatar

Nobody cares you can't get laid because you're old and unattractive.

Expand full comment
Greg Allan's avatar

Funny thing about Afghanistan. The Taliban had made the trafficking and rape of children illegal and had pretty much wiped it out. Under western control the traffickers were aided and abetted by OUR military.

https://www.smh.com.au/world/we-can-hear-them-screaming-soldiers-told-to-ignore-paedophilia-by-afghan-allies-20150921-gjr283.html

Expand full comment
Former Dem's avatar

They don't have to rape them when they can legally marry them now do they?

Expand full comment
Esther's avatar

Wow you sound like, you really hate women.

Expand full comment
Frank's avatar

Calling a spade a spade is not "hating women". Feminists are quick to make accusations like that. Are you a feminist?

Expand full comment
Tom Golden's avatar

Well said Frank. Here we see the short fuse associated with being "offended." Women simply don't have much practice with this. The boys and men have been practicing being offended since middle school. I have a post going up tomorrow about this.

Expand full comment
Esther's avatar

No, I'm quite the opposite. I believe in old 'fashioned family' values (read some of my notes) .

I also believe that women need to be protected, but sadly I can see that there are some women, who take advantage of our perceived 'protected status'.

Not all women are like that.

Expand full comment
Frank's avatar

Thanks for the clarification. I think both sexes need protection. Old fashioned family values worked well, until feminism rolled along.

Expand full comment
Esther's avatar

I think feminism started out for the right reasons.

There were times, when women didn't have the right to own their own house, or get paid enough to live on their own, so if a woman didn't have a male relative (husband, father or brother) to protect her, she'd ended up on the street.

That is why a lot of women in abusive marriages didn't have the option to leave, because there was nowhere to go, and a husband beating a wife wasn't taken seriously until maybe the 70's

Thank G-d nowadays that is not how we live. I think feminism achieved most of what it needed to achieve.

It has been taken to far, and taken advantage of by unscrupulous people. Hopefully things will settle down at some point.

But pls know, these women who take advantage of the people (men and women) around them are a minority.

Most of us just want to live peacefully.

Expand full comment
Former Dem's avatar

Complains about generalizations while making a huge generalization in the same post.

Expand full comment
Peter Andrew Nolan's avatar

"I had father, brothers, cousins, childhood and college friends who were male. They were all good guys, practically minded and very helpful."

And yet you support womens crimes against any of these men in your family. Any man in your family might be the next victim of a womans false rape allegation, false DV allegation, false SA allegation....and you don't care about them enough to make sure such women are punished for their perjury Yvonne. Not a single woman on the entire planet takes the position women who make false allegations should be punished. Not even one of you.

Expand full comment
Rachael  Morgan's avatar

I do Peter… believe me I bloody well do say that perjury etc must be punished

Expand full comment
Peter Andrew Nolan's avatar

Hello Rachael, I was replying to Yvonne.

You claim that you believe perjury must be punished. I don't believe you.

Now, I asked if you were Australian because you replied about a case in Australia. I have a reason for asking. I was born in Australia in 1964. My wife committed a dozen counts of perjury against me on 2007-11-09 and your fellow women have been trying to murder me for 13 years now.

There are no women who take the position women should be punished for perjury. So I am denouncing you all. Women should never have allowed my wife to falsely accuse me of adultery, attempting to murder her, child abuse and child abandonment. I take my good name seriously. You women have allowed this perjury to stand for 17+ years. I will not tolerate this.

We are going to punish ALL women for supporting womens perjury. Women really should NEVER have allowed my wife to tell such vile and disgusting lies about me. And that you let her do it on an affidavit under oath and you allowed her to present it to a court that then attacked me? You are all disgusting to me.

That you have allowed these lies to stand for 17+ years? You are ALL disgusting to me Rachael. You women should NEVER have allowed my wife to get away with her crimes. I am not some loser beta smuck. I am the grandson of an ANZAC who fought the Japanese for the duration. That you women thought you could attack me and I would not fight back and defeat you is beyond stupid.

Now. Are you Australian?

Expand full comment
Rachael  Morgan's avatar

Yes and also a ‘64 drop

Expand full comment
Peter Andrew Nolan's avatar

Well Rachael? If you are Australian and you were born in 1964 as I was? Then you KNOW how much you and your fellow women have attacked us men over the last 55+ years. I was born in Wagga Wagga. In 1970, when I was 6, boys could be caned and girls could not.

So the girls used to make false allegations against us boys to get us caned for their own fun and entertainment. That’s 55 years ago Rachael. Fifty five years ago girls first started attacking me with lies told to the government representative to have me harmed. And you are ALL still doing it today.

And in all that time, fifty five years, not one single woman has come forward to help us men punish criminal women who lie about us. Indeed, when we have tried to punish women who lied about us you women attacked us.

And I mean every woman of note in the country Rachael. Bettina Arndt is a very good example of just how evil you women are. I asked her to please help me save mens lives in 2009. She said no. Now she is grifting and making money pretending to be helping men.

If you wish to prove to me that you do not support perjury? Here is my divorce court room video proving the criminality of the courts. Go and tell Bettina Arndt to watch this. She has refused to watch it for 15 years.

https://rumble.com/v3k2zx8-z01-my-court-meeting-2009-11-26-with-captions.html?e9s=src_v1_upp_f

Expand full comment
David Smyth's avatar

Peter I don’t know your situation and I don’t need to watch a video however I can hear you are consumed with uncontained anger that will be destroying your possibility of a peaceful life.

I’m not a professional in any relevant field and have nothing specific to offer, but just as a fellow man I urge you to find a way to process and move on from that anger and “stuckness” through whatever engagement works for you: therapist, MensWork circles, Buddhism, or all of the above, just for example.

You seem to be sacrificing what is left of your future in rage at your past. You deserve better. We all deserve better.

Best wishes Brother.

Expand full comment
Jules's avatar

All women. All men. All Jews, all Muslims all teenagers, all teachers, all dustmen, all shopkeepers.....I find it hard when a person stereotypes a whole sex, or race, or profession. There are heinous INDIVIDUALS and I know situations, where a toxic ex wife claimed her husband sexually abused the kids as a power play against him, looking for full custody of the children. Does that mean all women do this when they divorce? Of course not. It's a known ploy, one of many played by parents in the courts, and the judge saw her toxicity in part because the husband kept many examples of her texts and emails, and was awarded fifty fifty custody. He's not become bitter, and has met a wonderful woman and now lives a sane life without the manipulative ex wife.

Becoming angry and bitter long term is likely a sign of unresolved grief. Getting help with the grief means you can progress to a life where you are attractive to others, friends, the opposite sex or just anybody. Your life force will be more positive. You will feel more relaxed and will enjoy life more. I do hope you find a way.

Expand full comment
Orr's avatar

"Here is my divorce court room video proving the criminality of the courts."

I watched your video and it proves no such thing. You presented yourself at court as a sovereign citizen (sovereign citizens believe that courts have no jurisdiction over people) and declined to defend yourself for that reason. Just because YOU don't recognize the court's authority does not make the court criminal. Bettina is right to ignore your case because it's not about men's rights, it's about sovereign citizenship. Bettina is a men's rights activist, not a member of the sovereign citizen movement.

Expand full comment
Rachael  Morgan's avatar

Hmmm, we may know each other. I was brought up at Tarcutta.

Perhaps we’d be better off privately communicating, legally I’m tied atm

Expand full comment
Stratum Press's avatar

Someone should go through all of the misandrist articles written by the NYT over the last decade and make a collage out of them, then use this "Men, Where Have You Gone?" article at the end.

Expand full comment
Tom Golden's avatar

Great idea Stratum!

Expand full comment
Conrad Riker's avatar

We'll be able to automate this by 2030.

The project to decenter fathers, men, boys, and masculinity will become absurdly obvious.

Western civilization will have a terminal lucidity and those few reasonable families will inherit the earth from the great flood of feminism.

Expand full comment
Stratum Press's avatar

"Western civilization will have a terminal lucidity and those few reasonable families will inherit the earth from the great flood of feminism." Agreed. Been saying this for years.

Expand full comment
Phillip Hickox's avatar

Paul hits the nail on the head.

It is my considered opinion that "Heterophobia" has been the underlying driving force that has driven men back into their caves.

The campaign to reduce the instances of "sexual harassment" started as an attempt to educate men and has now morphed into a criminal act that can result in the alleged offender being incarcerated.

The behaviours once associated with "courting" or "sexual seduction" are now associated with "sexual harassment laws".

Women complain that men don't approach, and men don't approach for good reason, like Pavlov's dog, they eventually learn to avoid being humiliated, shamed and used as a free meal ticket to boost some woman's ego.

Esther Villar, in her book "The Manipulated Man", caused a big stir and still does in her controversial and down-to-earth portrayal of gender relationships.

The "Me too," I believe, was the final nail in the coffin for heterosexual relationships. Every year, more and more laws are changed and introduced in order to convict and incarcerate as many men as possible of allegedly committing sexual assault, and the alleged offence may have occurred decades ago.

Expand full comment
Susan's avatar

I agree The MeeToo Misandrists are nasty

Where were these self righteous Feminists when nearly a million under age girls were being Raped Drugged and Groomed by the Pakistani Muslim Grooming Gangs????? Oh yes I forgot they were busy going after the successful businessman and celebrities and trying to get millions from them on hearsay allegations with no real evidence going back decades ago…..And so many committed suicide cause there’s no comeback even if you are proven innocent…. Where is the punishment for those lying women that know how to play the game and can seduce any successful men with the intention to destroy him and his family by accusing him …..

Expand full comment
PAUL NATHANSON's avatar

Yes, Phillip, I've noticed the same problem: two phenomena that seem to have different origins but might nonetheless, somehow, have a common one: (a) the spectacular political success of gay movements, including both lesbian and transgender ones, which coincide with (b) a massive increase in both laws and policies that discourage and punish almost any behavior that brings men and women together. In 1998, long before #MeToo, Daphne Patai discussed this very thing in a book called Heterophobia.

I generally dislike the political or ideological use of "phobia," by the way, because it was invented for rhetorical purposes and has an irrational connotation. In "homophobia," for instance, it's as if anyone who disagrees with a gay position, such as gay marriage, must be motivated by implacable hatred and thus due ultimately to neurotic fear. This, presumably, makes it okay to silence that position. I am gay, and I do oppose gay marriage though for reasons that have nothing to do with either hatred or fear (or even homosexuality itself, let alone theology.) But I might make an exception for "heterophobia," because I can't think of anything that would explain this phenomenon except neurotic fear of heterosexuality--that is, the urge to make it as difficult as possible for men and women to enjoy themselves together (for sexual, social, professional or any other purposes) without intense anxiety. Because this point of view ignores a fundamental reality of our species, sexual inter-dependence, it is indeed irrational.

I'm not arguing that heterophobia amounts at the conscious level to a conspiracy theory, only that it has become a psychological environment in which misandry thrives.

Expand full comment
Phillip Hickox's avatar

I have read almost all of Daphne Patai's writings and have a few of her books.

<"that is, the urge to make it as difficult as possible for men and women to enjoy themselves together (for sexual, social, professional or any other purposes) without intense anxiety.">

That is true, yet it seems to me that very few people see it.

Expand full comment
Phillip Hickox's avatar

I regret not buying your books when they were first published; however, there is only so much one can absorb.

Especially when it is not possible to have a sounding board or engage in an intellectual discussion about what is being written.

Expand full comment
Conrad Riker's avatar

Never mind.

The manosphere is growing slowly and it might take decades to move from forums, to video, to shorts, to the present when it influences the Zeitgeist at the margins.

I can well imagine manosphere explanations becoming mainstream for the devastation of our society in the mid twenty first century.

Expand full comment
Conrad Riker's avatar

Inventing phobias then playing victim is very effective!

Androphobia is the sexism and discrimination against men.

Anglophobia is the racism against English speaking classically liberal cultures.

Patraphonia the systematic, structural abuse of and discrimination towards fathers as in family law.

Expand full comment
Conrad Riker's avatar

Women like this have committed their lives to "decentering decency".

They're not going to let up until the day they die.

Her tombstone will read, blaming men in life and death.

There's a gynocratic force field preventing a genuine investigation into my men are absent. It also prevents a scientific investigation into paternity discrepancy, female intimate partner violence, nagging, shit testing, the reasons boys fall behind etc.

Expand full comment
Zone of Sulphur's avatar

A best kept secret involves the sheer volume of physical violence (not to mention mental and emotional cruelty) inflicted by women on men. When the couple arrive at court, judges and magistrates are so terrified of pushback from the feminist movement in their jurisdictions (complaints to the Law Society regarding judgements favourable to the male litigant), they invariable credit the abusive woman's testimony over the man's. Only when children refuse to go with the mother do courts begin to peal back the layers, and then only to the limits of the politically correct. A smart man focuses on career instead of the uncharted waters of family life.

Expand full comment
Alan Smith's avatar

When my wife wanted a divorced my wife's lawyer recommend that she take a AVO out on me as it would make sure she could isolate me from my children and cut me off financially.

Expand full comment
Zone of Sulphur's avatar

Hearing you loud and clear, dude. Been there. Done that.

Expand full comment
Alan Smith's avatar

1 in 4 Women Admit to Violence Against Spouse

https://archive.is/wip/tqgQs

Expand full comment
Tom Golden's avatar

Thanks for the plug Alan. You can find that post here on substack https://menaregood.substack.com/p/1-in-4-women-admit-to-violence-against

That one also has a link to the video version.

I wish more people would watch that one. I interacted with the DV researcher who admitted his biases. He was not able to admit the way he skewed the data and left out the most important pieces....

Expand full comment
David Stanley Lavery's avatar

Feminist sexism, double standards, misandry , anti male bullying and blame. Women's sexism is driving men away.

Expand full comment
ts1213's avatar

Bullseye!!

Expand full comment
Sadredin Moosavi's avatar

I could only read Nuzzo's response, but he is dead on. What these women have not figured out...is that they are undesirable and men would rather be alone than deal with such feminist trash. Face the facts...most Western women need to spend a few decades living in Iran under Sharia law to get perspective.

Expand full comment
Tom Golden's avatar

Truth! If you want more from Jim Nuzzo you can visit his excellent substack here https://jameslnuzzo.substack.com

Expand full comment
Mark1's avatar

I had an old college roommate and his two brothers come for a visit to my rural Colorado acreage. All three are divorced and living together in their retirement compound in Southern California. My old roommate commented that my wife was “sure a hard worker” as she toiled in the garden. My response was: “not from California”, and I could see a light bulb go on in his head. I grew up in Southern California and the women I met were “of high expectations”, financially speaking. Generally speaking, they couldn’t conceive of working along side a man to eventually achieve success; they wanted ready made. My “toiling” wife (doing exactly what she likes to do, in the garden) is a country girl from Missouri (with two master degrees). So I guess my take away, to men, would be if you don’t like the fish you’re catching, go fish in a different pond. After reading all the comments, for once, I’m glad I’m old.

Expand full comment
James Dickinson's avatar

Men are doing this on purpose and of course, women don't (want to) get the message. It is not that these men don't want to be in relationships all together, they don't want to be in relationships with you Drucker! I am proud of men! Thank you guys for keeping your backs straight and voting with your M. E. A. T. (Money, Energy, Attention, Time).

Expand full comment
Notorious P.A.T.'s avatar

Some people, I am finding, *can not* understand that they are wrong about something.

Expand full comment
Joseph L. Wiess's avatar

Many women only see men in one of two ways. We are either the enemy, or we are the workhorse that brings home the paycheck. Women feel as if they deserve the paycheck and don't need to anything for it.

It's not as if men are asking for much. We ask for love, we ask for physical contact, and that's basically it.

We are relatively low maintenance.

Expand full comment
Esther's avatar

Most women don't see men as the enemy or workhorse.

Feminists are a loud bunch, but they don't speak for all women.

I'd like to share my personal point of view as a woman.

This is about secular lifestyle, at least of what I have observed. (I have become religious in my early twenties, so my life is different)

When dating, women (especially under 30) have to pretend that they don't want anything real such as a relationship or marriage, because that scares away men.

Men used to need women in order to be able to have a home.

It is not necessary anymore. One can have a washing machine, buy takeout and have a cleaner come once a week. Heat and hot water are automatic.

So marriage from a men's point of view became a trap.

Most men are able to find willing women, so why would they want a 'ball and chain'?

If you look around you, and just tune out the feminists, you will find women, who just want to settle down and have a family. And want and need a man for that.

Good luck.

Expand full comment
Tom Golden's avatar

Esther - I think you are underestimating the brainwashing that has been done over the last 50 years. Ask almost any woman about feminism and you won't hear any negative feedback. Women are built to stay in the boundaries of their in-group and anti-feminism would be a big no-no. Today most women believe in the wage gap, they believe in domestic violence being mostly men beating women, they believe that they have been shorted in health care and in research. It is a rare woman who sees through the fog of feminist and media lies. Along with those ideas that men historically oppressed women and are now trying to take advantage of her. It is not easy for young men to find a woman who truly wants a partnership.

Expand full comment
Esther's avatar

"Today most women believe in the wage gap, they believe in domestic violence being mostly men beating women, they believe that they have been shorted in health care and in research. "

Wage gap- it is areal thing. I've seen it myself. I'm not bitter, it is just a reality. Some say because men tend to fight harder for higher pay, and if they don't get it, they leave and go somewhere else, and women are not like that. Once they find a good job, with nice colleagues and a healthy work environment, they won't leave so easily, unless they really need the money, they'll stay even if they know that they earn less than their male colleagues. I can see a truth in it.

It is nod ideal or fair, but life rarely is fair.

On the other hand, I have, baruch Hashem healthy children, and not all people are as blessed as I am. I have hardships and unfairness in my life, but I have other things to do, than go on the street and shout about it.:)

Domestic violence- it can go both ways, although it is more common, that a man is violent against a woman, if we hear the opposite happening to someone, it definitely shouldn't be dismissed.

I have seen both type. Neither is pretty, and neither one should be ignored.

"they have been shorted in health care and in research. "- I've never heard of that, so I don't have an opinion, and I won't google it.

I did grow up secular in the nineties and early 2000s. So I've seen things evolve, and although not really involved, I've seen and heard how things are shaping up regarding feminism nowadays.

I think you are underestimating women. Not all women are a diehard feminists.

Most of us just want a good life, but especially the young ones are scared, because they think (and tv and internet are agreeing with them), that men only want one thing, and if a woman shows a slightest bit of interest in a serious relationship, he'll run as fast as he can.

That is definitely true regarding "men" under 25, and often even under 30.

But does it mean every single men are like that? Of course not! There are men, who are stable and want a family, but again they are the quiet ones here as well. :)

Expand full comment
Jack Jones's avatar

It's a short walk from the church to the jail these days. No man with an ounce of grey matter in his bonce should consider getting involved with women. The new woman is stridently boring and has been weaponized. The feminazis control the courts, the parliaments, the bureaucracies and the police and everyone, including conservatives and the Church, are terrified of them. Also, who'd want to go out with a woman with a sexual history as per Drucker's? Talk about used goods.

Expand full comment
ts1213's avatar

No man with an ounce of grey matter in his bonce should consider getting involved with women.

And even if he tried it could well be mighty difficult.

Expand full comment
Rick's avatar

We got liberated. Women’s liberation is her finding out what it’s like to be a dickless male. and men’s liberation is us not having to feed and water these bitches anymore. I don’t think we can ever go back.

At best it’ll be on a limited individual basis, and I suggest the woman outline and initialize what she is willing to do to get that man to sign up.

Expand full comment
PAUL NATHANSON's avatar

Rick, you say, "I don't think we can ever go back." Maybe not. I'm not a fortune teller, but I do know from reading history that nothing is forever. What usually ends civilizations (or small-scale societies) is conquest--usually by people who are more primitive and more brutal but also more vigorous and more united--that is much healthier and prouder than we are at the moment. On the other hand, history is littered with surprises. In the West, we've had a long series of renaissances, reformations and awakenings. More than a few people are aware of the need for a new social contract between men and women. Maybe this is not the time to settle for initialized or even notarized consent forms.

Expand full comment
Rick's avatar
1dEdited

Reading comprehension can work but that's up to you. I said if a woman wants to get an individual man, in light of marriage being a legally inadvisable contract for a man to enter into in 2025 West, then I recommend that woman spell out everything she is going to do on her end of the deal. I recommend the man have spell it out. You trivialize it like this is something to be laughed off. One might say you getting screwed by way of marriage contract would be just deserts.

Yes, I would absolutely get it in writing, with her initializing and signing. Though that has very little power in court, it's something, and it'll probably make her more likely to hold up her end after the deal is struck.

Expand full comment
PAUL NATHANSON's avatar

Maybe we both have a problem with reading comprehension, Rick. You argue that I've trivialized your comment on marriage contracts. I regret that misunderstanding. Actually, I think that a marriage contract makes perfect sense and should be mandatory. In some traditional societies, it is indeed mandatory for every bride and bridegroom to sign one before the wedding ceremony. Like other contracts (but unlike consent forms), marriage contracts are indeed relevant in court (even though not all lawyers defend them effectively in court).

In an earlier version of your comment, however, you called me a "simp." That was much worse than any accusation about misunderstanding. That was a direct personal rebuke. You owe me an apology.

Expand full comment
Rick's avatar

I changed my comment to be nice. If you take that as a something to exploit you will find out I know how to not be nice.

Expand full comment
Rick's avatar

I see simpage. You will get no apology slick. Anytime I see a man who is probably in a relationshit, I see a dude who not only defends his bitch, he defends all bitches. He does this because he is afraid of what will happen when he gets home, so he filters everything he says through what his bitch will find acceptable.

Expand full comment
Rick's avatar

I don’t see it is as necessarily the end just because women are a bunch of liberated whores and men are liberated from caring for them. Women are selling their baby incubating services via surrogacy, and I think it’s just a matter of time before the artificial womb comes online.

Expand full comment
Zorost's avatar

Agreed. A big part of the problem though is that it’s not possible to get relationship contracts enforced in a court of law, so it’s back to trusting that a woman will do the moral thing when it’s against her short-term personal best interests.

Expand full comment
Rick's avatar

Right. That's why I recommend a man has the woman spell out everything she is going to do, and hold her to it. What women offer in marriage can be silently rescinded and the man is stuck. The best he can do is make her be frank about it, before marriage. Assuming he is actually going to get legally tied up in this rigged marriage contract.

Expand full comment
Edmond Dantès's avatar

Let's not forget about the circumcision violent male genital mutilation child sexual abuse solely perpetrated upon boys for a hundred years in the so called land of "freedom and liberty" USA, so much freedom yet men don't own their own cocks.

Not to mention all of the disgusting and debased cruel jokes about circumcision and the shaming of foreskin in crappy Hollywood garbage films and banal sitcoms.

Men don't have basic genital integrity and body autonomy for a century in a land where people see themselves as world leaders and the most moral and ethical! Such evil misandrist hypocrisy.

Women talk about my body my choice, and society is blind to the routine sexual mutilation and fight flight freeze trauma that is perpetrated upon baby boys.

Also, women have optional motherhood, but fatherhood is forced and at the mercy of the woman and the state. Men don't have reproductive rights either.

Then there's the male only draft, but I digress.

Circumcision is violent blade rape.

Europe, Japan, the majority of the world - knows better.

That's actual rape culture.

Foregen is a biotech company raising money for the final phase 3 of 3 human trials on GoFundMe.

They are regenerating foreskins through regenerative medicine to reverse circumcision mutilation.

They've already had successful phase 2 animal trials and have received millions on donations.

They're almost ready to be public.

Over 6500+ species of mammals have foreskins, it is not a mistake.

It has the majority of nerve endings and sensitivity of the penis. More pleasure, lubrication, less excessive friction WHICH ACTUALLY REDUCES DISEASE TRANSMISSION! YES, YOU HEARD THAT RIGHT. CIRCUMCISION=MORE FRICTION=MORE MICRO CUTS AND ABRASIONS=MORE HIV TRANSMISSION AND STDs - look it up.

European medical associations know how disgusting and crippling circumcision is.

Iceland almost banned circumcision but the selfish ADL and the USA pressured them not to. They will vote in a few years again to try to ban it again.

I hope they do.

Any culture that circumcises is not ethical or modern, but they are child sexual abusers and traumatizers.

No argument about it.

Also, they sell baby boy foreskin cells online as HFF, neonatal human foreskin fibroblasts, for $500 a vial in Sigma Aldrich and other biotech firms.

Circumcision and foreskin is a billion dollar industry.

Cosmetic companies can test their product on foreskin fibroblasts and then say they are CRUELTY FREE on their packaging! Why! Because they didn't test on the precious animals! Animals that are cared for more than human baby boys.

If you care about boys, say something.

Expand full comment
Vxi7's avatar

This! Nobody talks up against a barbaric tradition like this! If the skin is there cutting it off is mutilation. All other reason is crap excuses.

Expand full comment
Tom Golden's avatar

Exactly! Blade rape indeed. The truth is simply follow the money and you will see why they don't want to give up circumcision of boys. . Research is showing signs of ptsd for men who have been circumcised It is totally disgusting and indeed uncivilized. But of course circumcision of girls is totally illegal. No exceptions. https://menaregood.substack.com/p/circumcision-follow-the-money

Expand full comment
Island Took's avatar

what in fuck are you on about?? 😂

Expand full comment
Conrad Riker's avatar

Circumcising is real.

20% of American men have lost their most sensitive tissues.

Often without pain relief, either way it's a major operation.

It got grand fathered in through Abrahamic tradition of slicing off a part of the penis as a rite of passage for men.

Just highlights the empathy gap nowadays.

And how female version (female genital mutilation) is seen as doing something about whereas male version is slept on.

Expand full comment
Craig's avatar

Get fucked, dude.

Expand full comment
Notorious P.A.T.'s avatar

Imagine living in the modern world and not knowing about circumcision!

Expand full comment
Island Took's avatar

Is this like a flat earther thing? I mean I’m circumcised, and I’m doing just fine. And before we get “all religion is evil”, these kinds of practices often evolved for hygeine purposes. Perhaps modern science and hygeine makes this irrelevant now, but from your breathless hyperbole you’d think people were having their penises cut off.

Expand full comment
Greg Allan's avatar

"Over 6500+ species of mammals have foreskins, it is not a mistake."

The glans or entire penis are internal organs in EVERY mammalian species. I've recently confirmed that circumcising a dog could lead to charges of animal cruelty.

Expand full comment
Ken Barber's avatar

I think the original author is describing the inevitable result of the concerted effort over the past ninety years to degrade and dismantle Western civilization.

It will eventually self-correct, but not in my lifetime.

Expand full comment
ts1213's avatar

No better or more accurately stated. Correct itself? Perhaps, but then again perhaps not. It might just be this is a part of the collapse of humanity and the eventual end of the world.

Expand full comment
Ken Barber's avatar

History tends to run in cycles. According to the author of The Fourth Turning, they last about eighty years.

Expand full comment
ts1213's avatar

Tends... but that is not a hard and fast rule. Plus, God Almighty might just bring about the end before any turnabout ever transpires.

Expand full comment
Alan Smith's avatar

This happened to friend of mine in Western Australia. His wife tried to set him up, he realised something was wrong when he found her phone actively recording the conversation. She through her phone at him while she was screaming at him. He sat down and accidentally sat on the corner his wife's dressing gown. There was no physical violence. The WA Police Wanted to put him in jail for deprivation of liberty for sitting on the dressing gown (4 years prison), because her phone was broken (one count of DV 4 years prison) and another count of DV (4 years prison) for arguing with her as she was accused him of having an affair.

Also he was told by the WA police that they had an extra 70 million dollars of federal funding for DV (domestic violence) prosecutions. And that unless they (the WA police) prosecuted as many men as possible for DV they could lose funding for next year.

I was such frivolous prosecution by the police it got thrown out of court 18 months later.

But in the mean time it nearly destroyed his life, not to mention people in the street threatening to assault him.

She later admitted to me that she "did it to teach him lesson" and "I did not think it would go that far".

Expand full comment
Tom Golden's avatar

She should be punished.

Expand full comment
Conrad Riker's avatar

Women often go nuclear, then claim they don't want it to go that far.

They system was designed by feminists who understand the female psyche. They enter into chaotic rage and escalate irrationally. Then lock it in using police evidence collection.

For example, the wife attacks the husband and calls the police to deal double damage. Then tells everyone she didn't want it. Disavowing responsibility for her actions and claiming victimhood status of circumstances.

The goal is family destruction.

Expand full comment
Frank's avatar

" I doubt that I’ll live long enough to see the dawn of genuine inter-sexual dialogue,"

I saw a Youtube video of Rollo Tomassi and Aaron Clarey discussing this issue. They thought it would take 2 generations for there to be a rapprochement (if that is the right word) between the sexes. That would make 60 years.

Expand full comment
Crimson's avatar
2dEdited

She proudly declared she “optimized” online porn engagement among 18 year old men. (Surely none younger 🙄). I don’t think a lot of women or gay men get how toxic “porn” is for straight men because of the gender dynamic. They’re watching women get defiled and apparently love it from the onset of puberty. Besides the ignoble voyuerism and sadism, that’s primal hetero-male rage bait. No dis to gay men, but for hetero men porn is toxic rage-bait and appeals to the worst in men. It’s terrorism.

Expand full comment
Notorious P.A.T.'s avatar

Nonsense. The idea that pornography is bad for the viewer has been thoroughly debunked.

Expand full comment