What's sad is that my generation of men allowed this to happen. Men with no balls or spine and men with daughters are the worst. In Scouts, women had to step up because BSA couldn't get enough men to be scout masters. I think part of that was the risk of being accused of sexual abuse.
Totally agree. We men have been sleeping as things have been dismantled around us. The question I am working with is why. Why haven't men been fighting back. I have a post and a poll I am working on with that question. Will be very curious to hear everyone's opinions.
Thanks Tom! Great idea! The TinMen, not sure of his real name, says the problem is how we brand the Mens Rights movement. I think the biggest hurdles to overcome are 1) by nature men & society can't or won't accept that men can be victims, 2) women have a stranglehold on most or all of our institutions, 3) the way women interact socially works very well in our society today. Passive aggressiveness, playing the victim, isolating adversaries (canceling), forming strong alliances, etc.
I become more convinced by the day that the only way for men's rights to improve is to elicit women's support. Just as they did with men in the 60's. This has to begin at home. Mothers care about sons and husbands. That's when it's real and not just ideological. There should also be courses for men to teach them how to navigate in a women's world. Which leads me to the solution you mentioned. Preserve & create male spaces. If anything, it will be an opportunity to mentor young men. The one place that has not been totally captured yet, is the churches, synagogue etc. I look forward to seeing what you find.
This is exactly what Warren Farrell has been saying, that our best bet of change is to talk with the moms of young boys who have a vested interest in fairness for their sons. I agree with this to a degree but think that what is needed is more dynamic and confrontational. Men need to start standing up and getting a voice. Women have weaponized gynocentrism and paralyzed men from responding. Not a good thing at all and needs to stop.
One thing I find as a positive: Boy Scouts created an organization so attractive that girls wanted in.
The Girl Scouts of America has seen THEIR customers go over to the competition. Even girls can see what BSA offers is better and more fun than what GSA has to offer.
To me, this is all the fault of the GSA and how lame they allowed their version of scouting to become.
I was a cub scout in the mid-1950s. And I went to a camp for boys in the late 1960s. Fortunately for me, the camp did provide a few activities for boys who didn't care much about athletic prowess or survival in the wilderness. One of them was a fantastical "nature cabin" where we learned about trees, ferns, mosses and mushrooms. The camp owner's wife presided, taking us on hikes to collect seeds or pine cones. By and large, though, I didn't like either experience (although I disliked most sexually integrated groups just as much sexually segregated ones). But even I reacted well to one segregated activity: that was a Torah study group for fathers and sons.
But that was then. I now see--after a brief flirtation with feminism and decades of research on men, masculinity and maleness--exactly why most parents, including mothers, want their children to join segregated groups (in addition to integrated ones). Why? It's simple. They know instinctively that boys and girls, men and women, are different in significant ways. It's common sense. Moreover, they know that double standards are inherently incompatible with the moral goal of equality. That much is common decency.
Interesting Paul. Your uniqueness pulled you towards the pursuit of knowledge. I remember in scouting the necessity of getting merit badges on a wide variety of topics which required reading a small book and completing various projects. Each boy could choose which merit badges he wanted to achieve. Interesting too, the Torah study. My own troop was all White Christians but I suppose each troop was able to specialize study for their boys.
I was out of confidence in the Boy Scouts long before my sons were born. If I had young boys today I’d be looking into Trail Life USA. It seems to have the best of what the old Boy Scouts of America offered before the BSA caved in to the decades-long cultural leftist hate campaign.
The BSA had all the court decisions and legal standing they needed to remain true to their roots. Their national leadership was taken over by elitist quislings who financially overextended the organization. The corporate-class donors that were propping them up needed them to get in line with the new ideology. I’ve seen too many cherished American institutions sell out in my life to waste any tears on this one.
Yes, I forgot to mention Trail Life. Very interesting group that literally goes by the phrase "Let boys be boys." What a shift! This is from their web site "More than ever, boys need a uniquely masculine program where their assertive, audacious, and adventurous nature is celebrated, not sequestered." Gotta love that!
What's sad is that my generation of men allowed this to happen. Men with no balls or spine and men with daughters are the worst. In Scouts, women had to step up because BSA couldn't get enough men to be scout masters. I think part of that was the risk of being accused of sexual abuse.
Totally agree. We men have been sleeping as things have been dismantled around us. The question I am working with is why. Why haven't men been fighting back. I have a post and a poll I am working on with that question. Will be very curious to hear everyone's opinions.
Thanks Tom! Great idea! The TinMen, not sure of his real name, says the problem is how we brand the Mens Rights movement. I think the biggest hurdles to overcome are 1) by nature men & society can't or won't accept that men can be victims, 2) women have a stranglehold on most or all of our institutions, 3) the way women interact socially works very well in our society today. Passive aggressiveness, playing the victim, isolating adversaries (canceling), forming strong alliances, etc.
I become more convinced by the day that the only way for men's rights to improve is to elicit women's support. Just as they did with men in the 60's. This has to begin at home. Mothers care about sons and husbands. That's when it's real and not just ideological. There should also be courses for men to teach them how to navigate in a women's world. Which leads me to the solution you mentioned. Preserve & create male spaces. If anything, it will be an opportunity to mentor young men. The one place that has not been totally captured yet, is the churches, synagogue etc. I look forward to seeing what you find.
This is exactly what Warren Farrell has been saying, that our best bet of change is to talk with the moms of young boys who have a vested interest in fairness for their sons. I agree with this to a degree but think that what is needed is more dynamic and confrontational. Men need to start standing up and getting a voice. Women have weaponized gynocentrism and paralyzed men from responding. Not a good thing at all and needs to stop.
One thing I find as a positive: Boy Scouts created an organization so attractive that girls wanted in.
The Girl Scouts of America has seen THEIR customers go over to the competition. Even girls can see what BSA offers is better and more fun than what GSA has to offer.
To me, this is all the fault of the GSA and how lame they allowed their version of scouting to become.
Good point.
I was a cub scout in the mid-1950s. And I went to a camp for boys in the late 1960s. Fortunately for me, the camp did provide a few activities for boys who didn't care much about athletic prowess or survival in the wilderness. One of them was a fantastical "nature cabin" where we learned about trees, ferns, mosses and mushrooms. The camp owner's wife presided, taking us on hikes to collect seeds or pine cones. By and large, though, I didn't like either experience (although I disliked most sexually integrated groups just as much sexually segregated ones). But even I reacted well to one segregated activity: that was a Torah study group for fathers and sons.
But that was then. I now see--after a brief flirtation with feminism and decades of research on men, masculinity and maleness--exactly why most parents, including mothers, want their children to join segregated groups (in addition to integrated ones). Why? It's simple. They know instinctively that boys and girls, men and women, are different in significant ways. It's common sense. Moreover, they know that double standards are inherently incompatible with the moral goal of equality. That much is common decency.
Interesting Paul. Your uniqueness pulled you towards the pursuit of knowledge. I remember in scouting the necessity of getting merit badges on a wide variety of topics which required reading a small book and completing various projects. Each boy could choose which merit badges he wanted to achieve. Interesting too, the Torah study. My own troop was all White Christians but I suppose each troop was able to specialize study for their boys.
I was out of confidence in the Boy Scouts long before my sons were born. If I had young boys today I’d be looking into Trail Life USA. It seems to have the best of what the old Boy Scouts of America offered before the BSA caved in to the decades-long cultural leftist hate campaign.
The BSA had all the court decisions and legal standing they needed to remain true to their roots. Their national leadership was taken over by elitist quislings who financially overextended the organization. The corporate-class donors that were propping them up needed them to get in line with the new ideology. I’ve seen too many cherished American institutions sell out in my life to waste any tears on this one.
Yes, I forgot to mention Trail Life. Very interesting group that literally goes by the phrase "Let boys be boys." What a shift! This is from their web site "More than ever, boys need a uniquely masculine program where their assertive, audacious, and adventurous nature is celebrated, not sequestered." Gotta love that!